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Bruce Jacobs
Joined: 29 Jan 2009 Posts: 129 Location: Athens, GA
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Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:58 pm Post subject: Timing |
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Hello All,
It was great to meet many of you at Loco's on the 13th. The variety of VW's was fun, too.
For all intents and purposes I'm new to working on my '65 Beetle so I have a question (the first of many, I'm certain). It was running okay but I wanted to do my first tune-up and get my hands dirty. Valves okay (with help from Clyde's TDC tool -- even I couldn't screw that up). Points dead-on.
I don't own a strobe/timing light (yet -- the coffee can is running a little low) so I wanted to check the timing statically, for now, a la Muir.
The car is, like I said, a '65. The engine number is 7891771, which would make it a little earlier than that. The previous owner couldn't remember the timing value. He said it's a 1500cc, but with an old 28 PICT on it I'm skeptical -- why would somebody put on bigger jugs but put an old 28 on it?
There are two notches on the pulley, which I assume mean 7.5 and 10 degrees, respectively. Factory for that year would have been the notch on the right, 10 degrees. The car was running fine but the static light came on at 7.5. I set it ahead to 10, just to see, and it seems to run okay (I won't go far until I figure this out for sure).
So my question is: what is the proper setting? And, more theoretically, what defines that setting? In other words, why would one Type I motor want to be timed at 10 BTDC, and another one at or after TDC? It's my understanding that the throw never changed, but the bore size did.
By the way, I have a 009 mechanical advance distributor, which would not have been stock on the car. But I am not sure if this makes a difference.
Thanks!
It's okay to panic as long as you panic first and you're heading in the right direction. _________________ 1965 Beetle |
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Clyde
Joined: 03 Jun 2006 Posts: 855 Location: Athens
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Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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There are a ton of different pulleys, all meant to be used with their respective distributors. All of them got mixed up many moons ago when engines were rebuilt in garages where pulleys and distributors got interchanged with no reverence for the marriages they were supposed to remain faithful to.
Generally speaking, most engines run well at 30 degrees total advance, read with a degree pulley and a timing light, with the throttle goosed enough to get the distributor to fully advance.
The 009 and many of the originals have about 20 degrees of advance (this is why the static timing is set at 10 degrees). Add the static 10 and the advance 20 and you get the 30 total.
Temperature is what kills these engines, and timing has a direct effect on head temperatures. So be careful, make small adjustments and test drive attentively. A cylinder head temp guage can help tell you what is happening.
I guess the best thing is to figure out what year dist. you have. Then you can look up the pulley that was meant for it, and mark the pulley yourself? _________________ '69 Bug, 1776, dual kadrons, Web 111 cam
Clyde's Aircooled
(706) 206 6327 |
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Bruce Jacobs
Joined: 29 Jan 2009 Posts: 129 Location: Athens, GA
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:36 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the advice. From what you've said and what I've read elsewhere it seems that the 009 absolutely cannont be timed statically, at least initially. One forum writer suggested setting the timing so that the total advance (28-32 at 3500rpm) was spot on, and let the static timing fall where it may, since quality and values vary greatly with the 009. I might give this a try.
I've also learned that there are many strong opinions for/against the 009. I'd be interested to hear more opinions on this.
Bruce
"Reason has seldom failed us because it has seldom been tried." Edward Abbey. _________________ 1965 Beetle |
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Clyde
Joined: 03 Jun 2006 Posts: 855 Location: Athens
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Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 7:59 am Post subject: |
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The only thing I static time is 6 volt engines. _________________ '69 Bug, 1776, dual kadrons, Web 111 cam
Clyde's Aircooled
(706) 206 6327 |
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