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Timing Problems

 
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Tronview
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Joined: 29 Jun 2007
Posts: 330
Location: Bethlehem, Ga

1963 Volkswagen Beetle

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:33 am    Post subject: Timing Problems Reply with quote

I think the timing is off on my 75 Westy. I currently have it set at 7.5 BTDC at 850RPM 45 Degee Dwell But it still does not feel right. Lots of hesitation and some light backfiring on start off. It drives smooth after second gear. Does anyone have any advice on what I should set it at. Here are my engine specs

Carbs: Dual Weber IDF40s
Dist: 009
Engine: 2000 CC Type2 (Engine block serial starts with a GA)
Trans: Manual

I have also read that the problem could be my fuel pressure. I am running a generic 4.5 psi fuel pump. Not sure what is the pressure is at carbs. I don't own a gauge.
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Mountain Power House



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 879
Location: Aircooled Heaven USA


PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why set the timing at idle when the Bus doesn't operate under load at idle?? Doing this assumes that the dizzy has the correct advance built in, which it probably doesn't because they never do.

Set the timing at 28 degrees full advance at over 3K RPm and let the idle fall wherever it wants, idle timing is very insignificant.

webers require NO MORE than 3 PSI dynamic fuel pressure, any more keeps them from tuning very well at all..
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serprice



Joined: 26 Nov 2007
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1974 Volkswagen Beetle

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, When I built Adam's engine in his baja I found his fancy China made 009 only had about 15 degrees advance so his base timing wound up about 14 or so degrees. Thats whats so bad about those things. No two dist. advance the same amount. Though the German ones are better, you still cant trust them.
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Tronview
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Joined: 29 Jun 2007
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1963 Volkswagen Beetle

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info. I will set the timing tomorrow and report back on the results.
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Tronview
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Location: Bethlehem, Ga

1963 Volkswagen Beetle

PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Checked the timing tonight and didn't have to adjust anything.

3000 RPM 28 Degrees BTDC

Could it be the type dizzy I am using. I read several posts on Shoptalkforums stating that the 009 has a flat spot that causes the exact symptoms I am experiencing and that it is better to use the stock vacuum advance type distributor. If this is true what distributor would be the best match for my engine.
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Bob F



Joined: 16 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A 009 has to be "driven". In other words, rev up to enough RPMs so that when you shift to the next gear, the RPMs are still not any where near idle. Twisted Evil
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cavediver520



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what i have read and learned the flat spot is most predominate with the 34pict 3 carb. I have a 009 with dual weber 40's and have no flat spot. Just my 2 cents. Not really worth much...LOL
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Mountain Power House



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How much advance does your dizzy have in it??
I prefer a SVDA or a stock DVDA unit, even if the vacuum isn't used at all.
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Tronview
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Joined: 29 Jun 2007
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1963 Volkswagen Beetle

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mountain Power House wrote:
How much advance does your dizzy have in it??
I prefer a SVDA or a stock DVDA unit, even if the vacuum isn't used at all.


This is probley a basic question that I should know but how do you determine the amount of advance your dizzy has, and what does the VDA in SVDA and DVDA stand for?
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Clyde



Joined: 03 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have a degree pulley, just check your timing at idle, and your timing again, but with it advanced (goose it and watch your reading change, now hold the rpms high enough to get the advance to stay at the highest reading). Generally a VW is happy at around 10 at idle, and about 30 at high speed, or with the advance "all in."

Without a degree pulley, you'll need a timing light with an advance knob on it.

Call me if you want, James.
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cavediver520



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SVDA=Single Vacuum Dual Advance
DVDA=Dual Vacuum Dual Advance
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Cave Man



Joined: 09 Mar 2009
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Location: Cave Spring, Ga


PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:37 am    Post subject: Re: Timing Problems Reply with quote

Tronview wrote:
Lots of hesitation and some light backfiring on start off. It drives smooth after second gear.


After you get your timing to 28 deg at 3000 rpm if you still have a stumble (hesitation) when you step on the pedal I would look at the Acc pump or the acc pump jets. The 36 dells I had would fall flat on their fack untill I got some 30 pump jets and replaced the 50s that were in there. When you open the the throttle with the air cleaners off and the engine not running you should be able to see a steady light stream of gas squirting into eacs side of the carbs. If it is not then you have a problem. But your timing as you had it in the beginning is WAY too low and will make your bus run like crap and even get very hot if you drive it like that anyway.

Good luck.
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Tronview
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1963 Volkswagen Beetle

PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info I have been very busy at work and haven't had the chance to look at it in the last week. I will hopefully start tinkering with it tomorrow. I will post the results soon.

Thanks again.
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1963 Volkswagen Beetle

PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello

I got some work done on the bus last night. I rebuilt a second 009 and installed it I also started rebuilding an SVDA that is the same type shown used in the Bentley Manual for transporters of my year. I also determined the maximum Advance my old Dizzy has is 29 Degrees BTDC. After installing the rebuilt 009 I took the bus for a test drive receiving a huge improvement 90% of all hesitation is gone. The timing results are 28 Degrees BTDC at 3000 RPM and 14 Degrees BTDC at 800 RPM with a maximum advance of 28 Degrees. I am hoping to have time to finish the SVDA Dizzy sometime in the next few days so I can install it at Volkstock Friday or Saturday. Can someone tell me what the safe operating temperature that each head should be. I have a laser temp gun and would like to make sure I am not overheating with the new changes I've made. The engine feels like it is running hotter since the new Dizzy was installed or maybe its all in my head.

Thanks
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1963 Beetle
1975 Westfalia

Duct tape is like 'The Force.' It has a light side and a dark side, and it holds the universe together.
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Tronview
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Joined: 29 Jun 2007
Posts: 330
Location: Bethlehem, Ga

1963 Volkswagen Beetle

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A quick update.

The 009 I was having so much problems with had a stuck centrifical advance. The second 009 worked much better but is now installed in DiggerD's 66 bus to replace his worn out Dizzy. I installed a rebuilt DVDA Saturday and currently it is preforming great. I am now planning on installing velocity stacks and new filters on my Weber's along with readjusting the mixture and doing some work on the throttle linkage.

Thanks for all the help.
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