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Jon Site Admin
Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Posts: 2421 Location: Bishop GA
1969 Volkswagen Type 3
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Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:04 am Post subject: Sunday Sept 30 fun w/the bus |
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Sunday (tomorrow) the engine is coming out of my bus and all oil leaks are going to be found and stopped. Work will start in the morning and end when the engine is back in.
Feel free to come help or watch.
This a type 4 engine if you are wondering. _________________ 73 Typ481
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Jon Site Admin
Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Posts: 2421 Location: Bishop GA
1969 Volkswagen Type 3
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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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Engine and trans are out, shroud is off and the discovery process is engaged. So far, we found so much crap on my oil cooler that I don't know how any air is getting thru and oil looks like it is coming from under the breather tower, but not from under the breather. I'll post pics later to show better what I am talking about. _________________ 73 Typ481
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Jon Site Admin
Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Posts: 2421 Location: Bishop GA
1969 Volkswagen Type 3
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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Ok here come the pictures. I'll take any feedback you may have. Things I need to know are: Where is my leak, is the fan blowing the oil around so it is hard to find the source, can I just remove and clean the oil cooler or should I put I the new one I have?
I hope Jake Raby will lend some guidance, but please don't hesitate to give me your thoughts.
Not much air going thru this cooler.
_________________ 73 Typ481
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Mountain Power House
Joined: 26 Jul 2006 Posts: 879 Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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Based on that oil cooler I'd say the bearings are cooked.. The oil temps had to be through the roof.
The engine appears to have been cooking it's self for a while; the oil leaks are probably from an over pressurized crankcase from poor sealing rings and worn out exhaust valve guides.
I'd be willing to bet that the cam and lifters are toast too, they always are in a factory TIV.
Maybe I'm wrong, but this one looks like it should come all the way apart, its easy to waste time and money trying to resurrect something thats injured. Hell, on the other hand some full moon bus club member would love to have this- their engines are supposed to leak oil, run like crap and rattle like a diesel, so they'd appreciate the hell out of this one! _________________ Jake Raby
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Jon Site Admin
Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Posts: 2421 Location: Bishop GA
1969 Volkswagen Type 3
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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Well crap, that's not what I wanted to hear. Is there anyway to check for bearing wear? This is the engine I thought was running too cool as the oil had that milky look to it.
It seemed to run alright, just leaked too much oil. Yes I may be grasping at straws here, but I want to be driving my bus and cannot afford a rebuild right now.
I do have a spare type 4 engine, but is an unknown situation too. _________________ 73 Typ481
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Bob F
Joined: 16 Jun 2006 Posts: 203 Location: Bishop
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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I certainly would value Jake's input as an expert. If you want to roll the dice, clean everything covered in oil and replace as many seals and gaskets as possible. Also trash the old oil cooler. After that exercise you will have a better idea of what's going on and how to proceed from that point. Take note that this advice is from someone who's bus has been sitting for almost a year and still doesn't run! _________________ Ya can't have too many VDUBS.
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Mountain Power House
Joined: 26 Jul 2006 Posts: 879 Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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I doubt that oil was running too cool. Perhaps the oil had water intrusion that lead to that look? Engines that have a ton I leaks generally have internal issues that lead to excess case pressure an that forces oil from every orifice.
It's so hard to patch these engines up these days and its real easy to waste money on them by trying to save it.
Do a compression and leak down test and then go from there. Don't just reseal it because if its injured it'll still leak.
Also, put some gauges in the thing.. I'd bet that oil was cooked with all that crap in the oil cooler. _________________ Jake Raby
57 Oval
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Jon Site Admin
Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Posts: 2421 Location: Bishop GA
1969 Volkswagen Type 3
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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I pulled the oil cooler tonight. While the top was mostly covered in oil and dirt, the spaces between the fins were not obstructed. It is cleaning up nicely.
While I know next to nothing about type 4s compared to Jake, I do think I will clean and seal everything and put it back in the bus. If it is fried, all I will lose is a little time and a few dollars in parts.
Edit: I didn't see the above response by Jake until after I posted this. I don't want it to appear I am ignoring Jake's advice. I'm just hard headed and want to see what happens if I try this engine again. _________________ 73 Typ481
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Mountain Power House
Joined: 26 Jul 2006 Posts: 879 Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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Guess what the airflow path is through that cooler... Top to bottom.
That means if the top is obstructed the cooler is as worthless as tits on a boar..
I also see that the front two galley plugs are the source of some of that oil loss and they can't be resealed with the practices that you have planned.
It's pretty simple; if the engine has excess crankcase pressure from one or more sources you won't be able to keep it from leaking oil no matter if you glue every orifice shut with JB Weld. The reason why my engines don't leak is because we avoid crankcase pressure and manage what we can't get rid of very well. It's not just the sealants that we employ.
I have been wrong in the past and hope that I am this time, but 50 bucks says you'll waste your time- if you are ok with that going in, so be it. I have learned that time is so precious that wasting it should almost be a crime.
You asked for my insight and you got it; do as you wish. _________________ Jake Raby
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73 Superbeetle (Suby Power!)
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Jon Site Admin
Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Posts: 2421 Location: Bishop GA
1969 Volkswagen Type 3
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:12 am Post subject: |
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Mountain Power House wrote: |
You asked for my insight and you got it; do as you wish. |
I did ask and I thank you for your input. Information like 'leaking from the galley plugs' helps determine my course of action. I know that if the top of the oil cooler is covered air will not pass thru, I just thought maybe my engine was special. (it is, but not in a good way)
I will install my extra engine (after checking the oil cooler for obstuctions) and plan to rebuild this engine.
The thing that really convinced me was your point about time. None of us have enough of it; you are correct. _________________ 73 Typ481
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